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[icon] How much do I love my SGA boys today? - River's Run My Flow Of Ideas
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Subject:How much do I love my SGA boys today?
Time:03:33 pm
You know, I've been reading a few posts out there about Doppelganger...

And some people are complaining that they didn't like it as much as they thought, that it's a rip-off of SG1 eps, that there were lots of unexplained plot holes, etc.

Was it a rip-off of Cold Lazarus for SG-1?  Sure.

Were there plot holes you could fly a Jumper through?  Absolutely

Was the Carter worship from the writers obvious?  Oh, hell yes.

Do I give a flying flip about any of that?  Not in the least.

I adored this episode.  I could put Doppelganger and Tao of Rodney on a continuous loop and die a happy woman watching it.  Because this is why I write fanfiction.  The friendship, the teaminess, the caring between the characters.  I wouldn't have changed a thing about that ep, I wish I had written it myself, and can't even think of a true missing scene... except maybe a kiss (if I was writing slash) or a genuine manly, yet, brotherly hug (if it were gen) between John and Rodney (unlike that stiff one he gave Teyla) while they were in the gateroom before they woke up. *G*  

I could watch John and Rodney in that damn boat for hours.  John's angst when they told him Rodney died, when he was walking down that hallway afterward and looked like he was just going to stop and sit down because he didn't know what else to do, hell, his tone of voice when he saw it was Rodney in the isolation room because he had the entity in him was delicious.  I loved the way the entire team came together around Rodney when he was at risk, how Teyla and Ronon came on their own as soon as they heard to discuss options in Carter's office. I adored Ronon being completely lost during the conversation of the path forward and the bickering between Rodney and Radek throughout.  I loved the teasing they had for each other over their dreams.  It was the same sort of teasing you see between siblings or life-long friends or people who risk their lives together and have bonded... and isn't that what they would have done by now?  

I have always written John and Rodney as best friends... even in my slash the relationship is built on much more than just sex... and the team as family.  And to see it on the screen when it is so often ignored just makes me happy.  Deliriously happy and puts a smile on my face and who the hell cares if they never explained why the crystal did what it was doing in the first place?  Not everything can be explained and it's kind of silly for us to expect that every week.  Besides, this ep wasn't about the whys of the universe, it was about the team, the friendships, the family, the risking it all for the people we care about and then have them return the favor.

I've already watched it twice, am thinking about going to watch it again here in a few minutes, and already have plans to watch it with Kos next weekend.  And as soon as I can load it on the same dvd with Tao of Rodney, I'm going to float in pure John and Rodney nirvana.
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melagan
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 12:02 am (UTC)
Yes to everything you just said.

I've been delighted with the "teaminess" of this season and the developing friendship between our guys ♥
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liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 12:28 am (UTC)
I so adore the way they've shown the team last season and now again so far this season. And I just hope they keep it up. **fingers crossed**
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sgatazmy
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 12:14 am (UTC)
Exactly, it was awesome!

As for a rip off of Cold Lazarus? No, I disagree with fandom here. Cold Lazarus was about an alien who didn't understand us, was trying to help O'Neill heal and we saw some amazing scenes in that. This episode was about fear and friendship and risking everything to save a friend. Similar exterior plots, but very different in the stories they wish to tell.

But like you, I don't care about that. I just loved the episode. It was awesome. And sometimes answers bog things down. I had enough answers to keep me content.
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liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 12:33 am (UTC)
Oh, when I say a rip off of Cold Lazarus, I mean in plot device... alien crystalline entity that takes over the team leader when he feels compelled to touch it.. pretty identical. But, yes, I agree with you, they took it and ran in the opposite direction and I actually found that difference very interesting. But in the end, it was really just a device to get us to the real point of the episode...the friendships and what they were willing to do for each other. I think sometimes people forget what the point is, or they try to cram too much point into an episode or a fic for that matter. That's something I always try to keep in mind when I write a fic- what's the point? It's definitely helped in the past in the decision of where a fic is going. And I think they kept their eye on the prize in Doppelganger and delivered wonderfully!
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winter_elf
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 01:30 am (UTC)
Oh yes. I loved it too - for the reasons you said - strong team feeling. And while I'd like a whole bunch of followups with things being deeper between John & Rodney - I liked the episode very much as it stood for how much it showed they were friends who really cared for one another.
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liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 02:57 am (UTC)
Oh, I can definitely see follow-ups and this being a springboard for more in fics. And I'm *sure* I'll be refering to the events in this one for my own fics... both gen and slash.
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(Anonymous)
Subject:Laryn
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 02:56 am (UTC)
*flabbergasted*

Perhaps I best stay away from the newsgroups. There were people that didn't like the episode??? Like you, I could ignore the plot holes in favor of true team characterstics in this episode. Glad you liked it, too.

Laryn
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liketheriverrun
Subject:Re: Laryn
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 03:03 am (UTC)
Well, I don't think I saw anyone come out and say it was a crappy episode but there was much nitpicking about plot and similarities with SG-1 and it not being all it was hyped to be. And like I said, who cares???? They could have been attacked by sporks and hot sauce packets from Taco Bell for all I cared. If it had ended up with the angst and worry and friendship and team love this ep showed, I would have watched it and rewatched it again and again and my only complaint would have been an undeniable craving for tacos. *G*

But it was rather shocking to see much more comments about being disappointed than squeeing at the top of their lungs like I wanted to do.
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pisces227
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 03:07 am (UTC)
I love TeamSheppard eps. This one had so much.
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liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 03:12 am (UTC)
It really did! Everyone of the team got to shine in this... from Ronon teasing Rodney about his whale phobia to Teyla realizing Rodney was only staying in the field because of the bet with Radek. And it felt *warm* and *friendly* even when they were irritated with each other, with no malice behind it. And the John and Rodney interaction in this was just pure heaven. **happy sigh**
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dru_evilista
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 04:01 am (UTC)
I agree totally. I loved this episode so damned hard! Hee at points I actually was wondering if the writers have been reading fanfic, because I swear I've read that plot (having to save each other from dreams) at least a few times. But it was so damned good. Team bonding, team teasing, angst, worry, scary clowns, call back to previous stuff (And really Sam HAS been on a SG team for 10 years. It'd be stupid to ignore that she's been though stuff that can help. And I wasn't even screaming at Shep to shove her over a balcony this week. She's improving!) what more could you possibly want?!
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liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 01:19 pm (UTC)
The only thing that bothered me about Sam in this one is that *every* time she spoke it was to say, yeah, I've done this before. I started thinking maybe it was a joke with the writers and it just wasn't coming across as humorous. But otherwise, I really don't mind her being there. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that I never cared for the Weir character (this goes back to the first time they showed her on SG-1). The writers obviously had no clue how to write someone like the character they created and I honestly felt sorry for Tori for having to deliver some of the lines they gave her, especially as she was supposed to be the world famous negotiator. But other than the Carter love oozing from the script (I mean, come on, did Keller really need to brown nose after Carter's announcement?) I adored this episode.
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gilesbabe
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 06:23 am (UTC)
Loved the scene in the boat, but what I loved the best was when Rodney came back into the link to save him. John had all but given up, and you know that it was because he thought Rodney was dead. The entity was so angry when Rodney showed up cause he knew he had lost his trump card.

Then that whole, you, you, me, me thing was cute. And the coment about the hot girls? Still living in denial I see. :)
(Reply) (Thread)


liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 01:27 pm (UTC)
Oh, don't get me wrong, Rodney was pure love in this ep. His smug, "I'm not dead" and the whole, "You can't win!" "Yes, *we* can." and telling them to hook him back up so he could go back in to save John after he had nearly *died* in there in the first place... oh flails of happiness. And I have to say kudos to the costumers for what Rodney was wearing in the boat... that civilian shirt soaking wet and the sleeves too long for him... he looked like a kid and it just upped his vulnerability for me.

I think I spoke more about John's reaction in this ep because we've seen Rodney's worry over John in past episodes (when he goes after John in the VR in Aurora, the way he's calling to him frantically in Submersion when Ronon shoots out the window, the way he begs him not to attempt the rescue in The Ark) but it soooo rarely goes the other way. I'm not sure if the writers are writing it more or Joe F. is just taking what he's being given and running with it, but there have been a few times this season (like when Rodney mentioned the ascension machine and John's tone told you how much he hates that contraption) where it's come out. And this ep had it all over the place, and I just love seeing it! *G*
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patk
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 12:06 pm (UTC)
>>... even in my slash the relationship is built on much more than just sex...<<

And that's *exactly* why I love them. :-)
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liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 01:29 pm (UTC)
Awwww, thanks so very much! I started out as a pure gen writer and I see John and Rodney's slash relationship mirroring my own progression into slash with them first and foremost being friends. So, I'm glad you see it that way, too.
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mellyna
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 12:46 pm (UTC)
I thought it was a great team episode. There are very few of those for some reason. So, I agree with all the points you made. I hope we get more of these this season, but you never know. :) Take care.
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liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 01:30 pm (UTC)
Let's all keep our fingers crossed that we do. I don't know, for some reason I'm approaching next week's ep (Travelers) with as much dread as I had anticipation of Doppelganger. But I've been wrong in the past (Sateda being a perfect example) so I'm hoping I'm wrong this time, too.
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d_odyssey
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-22 11:10 pm (UTC)
I agree with your assessment 100%. I love all the eps this season, each one is better than its' predecessor. So far they have been team-centric and I love the bonding and care for one another as well as the comedy that comes from knowing one another well. The John and Rodney dream sequence was fantastic. The drama, angst as well as comedy was well written and acted. I say keep 'em coming.
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liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-23 03:45 am (UTC)
From your lips to TPTB's ears... although they've finished filming for Season 4, so I guess we'll just have to see what they have in store for us the rest of the season. I loved Season 3, especially after the absolute lack of team bonding they showed in Season 2, and so far they've delivered in Season 4. And that combo of angst and comedy that I strive for in my fics has really been coming across this season. Here's hoping that it continues.
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pansychubb
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-23 03:42 am (UTC)
I definitely agree - my first reaction to the episode was, "Ho-ly crap. I think that was a *perfect* episode!" Not that it didn't have its flaws (er, I guess that negates the "perfect" . . .), but as far as the characters and bonding go . . . wow!

Plus, the h/c junkie in me must point out that a) Sheppard got the crap beat out of him, b) Rodney got sedated, and c) both Rodney and John got defibrillated - I nearly died of *squee* at the whumping goodness!

But back to friendship - John's obvious shock and grief as he walked down the corridor after Rodney "died" . . . oh. It made my heart sing.

:-)
-Pansy Chubb
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liketheriverrun
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-23 03:51 am (UTC)
That scene in the hallway... OMG! The way John just kept walking slower and slower, totally emotionally lost, I thought he was seriously just going to stop and sit in the floor and lose it. And that pleading look he gave Teyla and Ronon (and Carter, but in my mind that was just because she was there, too) when Keller told him Rodney was dead... just, just, whimper! Sooooo many wonderful moments, one on top of the other. I think that's why I enjoyed it as much on the second viewing... I could really pick out the details after just being in a state of I can't believe they're giving me such a wonderful present during the first viewing.
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darkmuadib
Subject:YES!
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-26 03:37 am (UTC)
Hey.
Just wanted to say I LURVE your geek and goons series, i have been devouring them and the ficlets. Anyways I also LURVE the doppleganger episode. For me beyond the chrystaline thing this was really different from cold lazerus, and I really loved the look into each persons dream sequences about their insecurities. Especially Ronon's where for me even after being on atlantis for 2 years now, he is still scared of being alone and having to go on the run. And the banter and look into the characters pasts like Rodney, I jsut squeed at that.

And I have to say.... and maybe its just me, but they seem to be doing more emotional reaction shots of Sheppard... yeah that walking along the hallway scene was wonderful, but if you recall from lifeline when John just flew the city down and landed it, right after he landed it he seemed quite whoobie.. like the events of the past few days have been rushing in and hitting him, at least it seemed that way to me... And how there was more angst between him and rodney and not just the usual annoyance factor.

I have to say it feels there have been more character moments in season 4 already than before... but maybe i just am noticing them more.
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liketheriverrun
Subject:Re: YES!
Link:(Link)
Time:2007-10-27 05:35 pm (UTC)
Thanks so much! I'm so happy you're enjoying the Geeks And Goons Guides. If you haven't read my Dictionary series or Koschka's Geeks and Goons series, you should. They're gen but they lead into the Guides and are often referenced, so you might get a few of the references if you did.

As to Doppelganger, I adored it! And went and rewatched it after the letdown of Travelers. (sigh) But yes, they have definitely been showing more angst and concern and worry between the boys and the team in general this season and last, which I just love. I'm hoping it returns next week!
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[icon] How much do I love my SGA boys today? - River's Run My Flow Of Ideas
View:Recent Entries.
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View:--liketheriver's fics at FF.net--. --likethekoschka's fics at FF.net--. --likethekoschka's LJ--. --River's Master Fic List--. --River's Twitter Fic Master File--.